'2A' a Terrorist Marker?

It emerged in the Congressional FBI whistleblower hearings that the abbreviation '2A' is a "terrorist marker." That came as news to me. (But see here.) I have been using '2A' from time to time as an innocuous abbreviation of 'Second Amendment.'  The context, of course, is the Bill of Rights which are the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution.

I have written sentences like this:

2A does not confer, but protects, the citizen's right to keep and bear arms.

My use of the harmless abbreviation makes me a terrorist, a white supremacist, and what all else in the eyes of the regime.  What does it make the regime? A police state.

So I suppose it is a good thing that it has been a very long time since I attended a Latin mass. These masses, as is now well-known, are notorious gathering points for insurrectionists, militiamen, and other violent extremists out to overthrow 'democracy.'  Much less known, however, is that these masses are conducted, not in old Church Latin, but in coded Latin.  Thus hoc est corpus meum is code for create mayhem. De mortuis resurrexit means: he rose up and committed insurrection.  There really are very few threats to the powers that be stronger and more insidious than the Latin mass, which is why Pope Francis, that faithful custodian of the depositum fidei, is such a staunch defender of the old mass against the forces of reform.

Sarcasm aside, part of understanding  the destructive Left is understanding their commitment to the hermeneutics of suspicion.  You can learn about said hermeneutics, and cognate topics, from my essay From Democrat to Dissident section 16.4. It is published in Hillman and Borland, eds., Dissident Philosophers: Voices Against the Political Current of the Academy, Rowman and Littlefield, 2021.  Available via Amazon where you can read some editorial reviews.

 

Comments

[Joe Odegaard]

Sarcasm aside, the Latin mass is said in Latin, which, being a dead language, is immune to the linguistic manipulations of the Left. That is a big advantage.

[Hector Cruickshanks]

'There really are very few threats to the powers that be stronger and more insidious than the Latin mass' - I know a few traditionalist Catholics who maintain this very thing! Maybe they're onto something since so many people seem to be against them, including many in the Church hierarchy!

How common are Latin Masses in the US? Sadly, in the UK they are as rare as hen's teeth outside London except for the SSPX chapels (and I'm a little wary of them).

[BV]

Good to hear from you, Hector. How's FB been treating you?

For me to hear a Latin mass I would have to drive about 40 miles west of here. Such masses are few and far between. It struck me the other day just how absurd the Novus Ordo< label is. They got rid of the trad. mass and then they use a Latin tag to label the new dispensation?! The idiots! No doubt they had good intentions. Or did they?

The point I was making is that the totalitarian nature of the current Dementocratic regime -- I call it that because Joe Biden is non compos mentis -- fairly jumps out at you from the fact that the FBI is going after a TINY segment of the population which is of course no threat to their temporal power. This shows that they are not interested merely in temporal power but in spiritual/eternal power as well. They are doing much more than protecting the Republic from so-called terrorists -- which would be legitimate if the people they target really are terrorists -- they are attempting to suppress religion in public and in private and violate the separation of church and state that they themselves invoke when it is convenient. They want to supplant religion because religion (and philosophy too) point to a Transcendence that threatens the hegemony of the State. They want to replace the worship of God with the idolatry of the State. Totalitarianism brooks no competitors! They want the whole enchilada. That is what it is called TOTALitarian. It's all been done before. It's all been written in the book of communist atrocities.

[BV]

Your point, Hector, is that the Latin mass -- which does not contain any leftist junk or 'woke' bullshit -- poses a threat to the totalitarian quest for spiritual hegemony. So your point nicely complements mine.

The Anglosphere is collapsing. The last man standing is the USA, but he is half-kneeling. When he is fully supine there will be no place left to go except either the gulag or the catacombs. Or am I exaggerating?

[Joe Odegaard]

Hi Hector. Southern California has a population of about 24 million people; here is a list of Latin Masses in Southern California (http://www.christkinglaw.com/listing-of-traditional-latin-masses-in-southern-california.html) there are 23 locations in this list, so one Latin Mass per million souls. Latin Masses are very rare.

And of course they are subversive, they lead one to realize that we are answerable to our Creator, and not to any government. And they are the same in any country; Portugal, Norway, Singapore, China, USA: all the same. The obvious is thus stated; human governments are unimportant in reality.

No wonder that all the secular powers hate the Latin Mass.

[Joe Odegaard]

No, brother Bill, you are not exaggerating.

[BV]

Thanks for the comments, Joe, but I got a 404 error when I clicked on your list.

But of course, the totalitarian powers hate the Novus Ordo mass as well, not to mention Protestant services. That was part of the Covid lockdown scam: shut does the churches, but keep the liquor stores and pot dispensaries open. They want a doped-up, compliant, ovine population.

It ought to be mentioned that a secular power needn't be totalitarian, and that a totalitarian regime can be theocratic -- which is what we surely do not want.

[Hector]

I've heavily cut down on my use of social media altogether in the last year or so and thus I've not been on FB for a long time - are you still posting there?

The only way I could get to a Latin mass on Sunday is to get a train to London (93 miles from here) and then run very fast indeed to make it on time!

I think (but I might be wrong) that the NO service can be held in Latin too as the vernacular is considered to be a translation from the 'original' liturgy of the NO in Latin. Some Latin masses use the NO liturgy but I think they're uncommon. On the intentions - misguided or otherwise - of the reformers I honestly cannot say!

I'd like to believe you are exaggerating but I'm afraid you are correct. I fear that the US has recently lurched into a sort of woke overdrive and overtaken the UK in this insanity. What's worse is it goes beyond the Anglosphere - I think it's a global problem with contemporary social liberalism; its conceptions of the good life and the common good have become perverse in the extreme and liberals seem to be incapable of seeing that it is those very conceptions which are exposing the most vulnerable in our society to the depredations of the powerful and criminal (e. g. the extremely powerful medical/psychotherapeutic/pharmaceutical industrial complex makes a fortune from trans ideology, abortions etc.). In the name of the powerless and the downtrodden they remove - through propaganda, policy and bullying - those very necessary social breaks that serve to preserve vulnerable people from the worst effects of institutional and corporate power, all to further some kind of exceedingly vague and abstract notion of infinitely maximisable liberty - liberty as the infinite expansion and expression of 'choice' - a liberty that is in fact exceedingly impoverished in its production of true individuals and seeks mass conformity of thought and action. It's a bafflingly stupid ideology! Its image of the individual is so desiccated that for many social liberals the true individual is a surgically mutilated young boy in a dress (than which it is harder to think of a more disturbing image of exploitation) or a prostitute who has deluded herself into thinking her occupation is virtuous; whereas a true individual is a distinguished man or woman of learning; a great novelist or poet; a politician who has fought against all the natural and unnatural forces that amass against positive reform to maintain justice and peace; a businessman who has founded and developed his own socially useful company; a farmer who takes pride in the quality of his produce; a parent who has nurtured his or her children and educated them to be good and wise; someone who has mastered her moral failings and devotes herself to aiding the poor and sick - and so on. One thing we really need is to restart a discourse about who the true individual is. A true individual is - at least in some respect of his or her life - virtuous and accomplished; not someone simply in thrall to every whim or notion that passes through his head!

[Hector]

Hi Joe,

Hope you are well! I'm afraid the link didn't work for me either. I should imagine Southern California has considerably more Catholics than England does so we might actually be doing better than you regarding TLM numbers!

[Hector]

Regarding the catacombs, this from Sir Roger Scruton:

“I have nothing positive to say about popular culture, and nothing positive to say about the cultural establishment… We have entered, as I see it, a spiritual limbo. Our educational institutions are no longer the bearers of high culture and public life has been deliberately moronised. But here and there, sheltered from the noise and glare of the media, the old spiritual forces are at work. Popular culture contains pockets of gentleness and melody. Architects, writers and composers produce works which are neither kitsch nor ‘kitsch’. Prayer and penitence have been interrupted, but not forgotten. To those who wish for it, the ethical life may still be retrieved. Ours is a catacomb culture, a flame kept alive by undaunted monks. And what the monks of Europe achieved in a former dark age, they might achieve again.” (from his book 'Modern Culture' - oddly there are no page numbers in the ebook!)

It's strikingly similar to what I've been saying for years now - that those who wish to preserve Western civilisation must become like the monks of the Dark Ages; with two differences: that we ourselves made our barbarians and that the barbarians of the Dark Ages were not as barbaric as those of our own time.

Not wishing to sound paranoid, but even keep your DVDs and CDs. It's the best way to preserve good films and music for the future. Streaming services can take things down, they can edit them. Publishers in the UK are now re-editing classic children's books in line with the wishes of 'sensitivity readers' - an Orwellian locution which as so often with Orwellian locutions is the opposite of what it means - for these people are neither sensitive nor readers!

[Joe Odegaard]

Here, brother Bill, try the link like this; & note that Saint Therese, Alhambra, is on the list !

http://www.christkinglaw.com/listing-of-traditional-latin-masses-in-southern-california.html

[BV]

Excellent comments, Hector.

Scruton's "Catacomb culture" is an apt phrase. That "we ourselves made our barbarians" is a good insight of yours.

Most important is to build and preserve private libraries. Librarians, who are most women, are suckers for wokery. They are almost all lefties and cannot be trusted to transmit high culture which is what we latter-day monks must do.

You have raised a question for me: Can a service count as Novus Ordo and be in Latin? I thought not. Am I wrong?

As for FB, they blocked me months ago for refusing to give them my smart phone number. Comments over there were crappy in any case -- except for yours!

[BV]

Hector,

Very good analysis @ 3:05.

I focused on the Anglosphere because there is where one expects individual liberty to count for something. But just look at the Aussies and Canadians! Disgusting.

Joe,

Yes, STC. That was the last Latin mass I attended, with you and Pangburn et al. in 2017 at STC during our second STS '64 reunion.

[Vito B. Caiati]

Bill,

I will soon find myself in the same situation as you, since the Latin Mass, reverently offered in a parish church just ten minutes from my home that I have attended since my return from France in 2017, is about to be terminated, as we receive a new, Bergoglio friendly bishop in our diocese. All those who attend this Mass learned this horrible news last Sunday and have been greatly disturbed by it. To attend a Latin Mass, I would now have to drive 63 miles to the suburbs of Philadelphia, where the SSPX--thanks be to God for Archbishop Lefevbre and the society he founded--occupies a chapel. At 77 years of age, it is too far for me to travel each Sunday. So, my choice now is either to attend a "Novus Ordo" Mass, with all its liturgical and theological imperfections, all harmful to my faith, or to take my leave and rely on private prayer and spiritual communion, which is exactly the intention of Bergoglio and the modernists (i.e., a faction of the global Left) who support him. These are very dark times.

[Joe Odegaard]

Hi Hector ! Yes I am well. I live in Northern California now, & The closest Latin Mass, as far as I can tell from the "web," is in Chico, California. about 115 miles east of where I live in Mendocino, measured in a straight line. But of course you have to get over the coastal mountains to get to Chico from here, so the driving distance is a lot more. I'm 73. I can't drive the round trip every week. The RCC has basically stolen the Latin Mass from me. I was 12 years old when they stole it.

[Hector]

I double-checked: yes, the Novus Ordo can be in Latin, and there's no requirement that it be in the vernacular. Papal masses are still typically in Latin (even Pope Francis's!).

FB is quite pants these days. Very few of my friends use it any more so posting stuff is often pointless as it gets very little if any reaction. I think most people over 25 use Instagram now but I'm not someone who takes many photos so I've not taken up that platform. As for TikTok I'm half convinced it's a novel form of cyberwarfare by the Chinese.

Private libraries are a must - this is another topic that needs more discussion on the right! Even with books the trend towards discarding physical copies and getting digital copies is obviously dangerous. I've also been trying to make sure I obtain as many of the world's great films on DVD as I can find. People sometimes laugh at me for that but they'll see my wisdom when they find they can't watch 'Gone with the Wind' anymore because someone decided it was too racist for the masses (this has already happened once with HBO!!). Who knows what these philistines would do with 'Birth of a Nation' or 'Triumph of the Will' - if they'd ever heard of them. We must also make sure our libraries go to good homes upon our eventual demise. Even if you set up some sort of private institution no doubt some bright spark will come along and decide to cull your collection - after all, like any civilised person you and I have books by all sorts of dubious characters. I recently bought a book that had been part of the library of George Lichtheim (the scholar of socialism) and given to one of the London universities after his death. Why had a useful and important book (Edgar Wind's 'Pagan's Mysteries of the Renaissance') in a clean copy once owned by an important scholar been discarded by the university? I also have a book that once belonged to J. B. Priestley. I fear I'm starting to sound like the protagonist of Canetti's 'Auto-da-fe'!

[BV]

Hector,

Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph des Willens is an important historical document.

>>We must also make sure our libraries go to good homes upon our eventual demise.<< More eventual for you than for me, and I have been giving serious thought to this, and who will be my literary executor. It doesn't seem right that the 35 volumes of my journals should be just thrown into the trash even if most of it is of no interest to anyone but myself.

>> I fear I'm starting to sound like the protagonist of Canetti's 'Auto-da-fe'!<< Please explain. Is that a novel of his?

Aren't we glad to have the diary of Samuel Pepys despite the rubbish he wrote into it?

[BV]

Vito,

That's terrible news. How many attendees did your Latin mass draw? I am assuming that there was just one Latin mass per week. How could anyone object to that? I have a very low opinion of the Catholic bishops in general and of priests in general. They are mostly just wannabe social workers and homosexuals who couldn't think their way out of a paper bag. Yes, I am being a little unfair.

>>rely on private prayer and spiritual communion<< That's what I do. But then I'm an introvert. You may need the communal side of public worship. Hpw often did the Desert Fathers and hermits get to mass?

[BV]

Hector,

Thanks for setting me straight on the Novus Ordo. All the best.

[Hector]

Bill,

'Triumph des Willens' is an important aesthetic document too. Of course, its subject matter is repulsive but Riefenstahl pioneered many techniques that have now become standard in film-making and she used them brilliantly; she has a major place in film history. It's a challenge for those who argue for formalism in philosophy of art (or a certain rather narrow type of formalism anyway). Can Nazi propaganda - however exquisitely shot - be truly *beautiful*, great art? Only on a very narrow, rather empty definition of the beautiful I'd argue.

'Auto-da-fe' - Die Blendung in German - is Canetti's only novel. The protagonist is Peter Kien, a brilliant Sinologist whose only interest is his enormous private library in Vienna and his research. He marries his vicious, conniving housekeeper and everything goes wrong. It's a strange, rather interesting book.

As for the TLM, many young converts or reverts here strongly prefer it - I personally know a few who do and you couldn't meet more observant, devoted people - model Catholics. Why the church wants to heavily restrict or do away with something that's attracting people to it - something it acknowledges to be a valid rite - I cannot comprehend.

I hope you can find a good home for your journals! Judiciously edited, the best make for great reading. I recently read some of James Lees-Milne's, which I recommend if you're interested in British cultural history.

[Vito B. Caiati]

Bill,

When my local TLM, which is offered once a week on Sunday, began in 2017, on average of only about 30 people attended it, but over time this number has steadily increased so that now anywhere between 125 to 150 people appear. And what is most interesting is the heterogeneity of this congregation, everything from oldsters like me; to young people, alone or as couples; to families with children, including many Hispanic families, with adorable children in their best Sunday dress. Thanks to our bishop, another church in the diocese, about 40 minutes from me, offers only the TLM, and its small chapel is always full. It appears that both churches will now be forced to offer only the Novus Ordo.

Like you, I am an introvert. Except for my sister, whom I see about once a week, I am alone all the time. People are often amazed at how much time I can spend alone. In fact, my attendance at the TLM is my one public appearance of the week, and I never fail to show up because good spiritual things that this liturgy has conferred to me over time. So not having it will be a great loss.

As for your opinion of Catholic bishops and priests, I generally agree. There are, of course, a few exceptions, but one can judge them by their support or silent acquiescence to every heretical and purposely ambiguous pronouncement of Bergoglio and his minions over the last ten years. Only a handful have raised their voices in opposition. At the same time, too many have either permitted or covered up sexual scandal of the worse sorts. The bishops are the clearest expression of the contradiction that infects Catholicism at this time: the insanely exaggerated obedience to the papacy, constructed by the ultra-Montanists in the 19th century to protect the faith, is now the lever by which all those who seek to deform and destroy what is left of its traditional thought and practice go about their work.

As for the priests, we have some very good ones, but you are right that the homosexual infiltration has been widespread and, at the same time, too many of the clergy, the products of seminaries that have been denuded of traditional Catholic teaching, have no idea of the form or content of the historic faith. To enter many of their modern parish churches is akin to entering what my present orthodox paster terms “ski lodges”: the Blessed Sacrament no longer on a high altar at the center of the apse, often replaced by the priest’s chair, as in Protestant temples; the church stripped of the images of the Holy Family and the saints; the altar rails removed; and so on. The Masses that they offer reflect the washed out, quality of their Catholicism: the sloppy and irreverent consecration and handling of the consecrated hosts in many Novus Ordo Masses; their distribution by laymen, both men and women, with dirty hands; their reception by congregations that approach the altar, often inappropriately dressed, in the most casual manner, much as if they are on a food line, receiving the Sacrament in the hand so that many particles, each one the Person of Christ, fall to the floor. Is it any wonder that so many Catholics now regard the consecrated host as no more than bread and that hosts are so easily stolen and desecrated. Also, what is this standing rather than kneeling that is now common practice? It is nothing more than one more sign that the Church acquiesces to the modern elevation of man to the center of things, this modern man that is too independent and proud to kneel before the Creator. The lazy, accommodating nature of so many priests today are what allows for the continuation of these disrespectful, disgusting practices, most of which appeared in north-western Europe, heady with all the false hopes of human material and moral progress of les trente glorieuses, in the 1950s and 1969s and that spread first throughout Europe and then the rest of the world. No pope of the last half century, no matter what “conservative” label some may affix to him (although Benedict XVI was aware of it) has had the courage or will to overturn this deadly trend, the price of which has been orthodoxy itself.

[BV]

Great commentary, Vito. I hope to respond later. The rest of you should carefully consider what Vito has to say.

[BV]

Vito,

Are you in touch with your former TLM attendees? Perhaps you can organize a renegade service at one of your houses/catacombs assuming you can talk the priest who said the TLM mass to defy his bishop.

The last time I went to mass with my wife I noticed men and women in shorts! Now I am a sartorially casual '60's type of guy, but I would never attend mass in T-shirt and shorts.

Did you see John Fetterman in the U. S. Senate in shorts with a 'hoody' on? It would be interesting to examine the role of sartorial decline in the general cultural decline.

[Vito B. Caiati]

Bill,

It appears that the two priests who offer the TLM will follow the commands of the bishop.

Our only option to contact the SSPX, which one of us has already done, to see if the Society have any interest in establishing a small chapel in the area, although the costs and logistics of this may well be daunting.

I believe that Fetterman's sartorial choices, ones that he flashed throughout his senate campaign, are ideologically motivated; he wears the clothes of the street, and specifically the streets of the inner cities, the hoodies and sweat pants often favored by rioters, loafers, the young, and criminals. Its his way of signalizing his solidarity with the nihilistic part of the much broader Left coalition allowed this zombie to win in Pennsylvania. Its the riots of 2020 on display in the halls of the US Senate: a direct strike at the heart of our history and our traditions.

[Hector]

Vito,

Could the priests at least offer the NO in Latin for you and your fellow TLM attendees?

The TLM is certainly greatly preferable for introvert types like us. None of the handshaking and grinning at people and so on - I find all that very distracting from trying to engage with the liturgy but they call it 'participatory' - participating in what? I don't mind socialising with people after the mass but during it I want to be focused on God. This is what some people refuse to understand - the TLM is MORE inclusive. Not only does it demand proper reverence, it welcomes the extravert and the introvert, the lowbrow and the highbrow, and any person from any place by refusing the post-Babel babble of the vernacular - as Joe points out above.

Vito, you appear to assess the SSPX and Archbishop Lefebvre more positively than I do. Of course, the SSPX are now becoming highly important as they will certainly refuse to comply with an order to cease using the old rite. But my feelings about them are mixed, due to both personal experience and more general concerns about their ideology. Personally, I have been to three SSPX masses, two of them inoffensive - indeed, beautiful - but one involved a half hour long rambling and demented sermon by a priest who appeared to be certifiable, which was certainly off-putting. And as for Lefebvre himself, I have three main concerns which are related to my issues with the SSPX - though you might be able to allay them. Firstly, that he strongly supported Petain and the Vichy regime and until the end of his life praised and celebrated Petain but as far as I can ascertain he never once mentioned Petain's collaboration with the Holocaust; secondly, that even near the end of his life he was talking about 'Judeo-Masonic' plots and conspiracies which furthers my suspicion of deep-seated antisemitism (and characters like Bishop Williamson don't help to correct that impression, though he is no longer in the SSPX); and thirdly, that I wonder if his opposition to Vatican II in toto aligned the TLM in most people's minds with schismatic extremism and actually did more harm than good for liturgical conservatives. (I do not wish to imply that he was all bad, he clearly did much good work for the church in Africa).

My real concern is this: if I wish for a liturgy stripped free of the vulgarities and theological illiteracies so commonly found in Novus Ordo services, I also wish for a mass uninterrupted by schismatic ranting or antisemitism - I consider the latter to be even more disfiguring. And the SSPX has a reputation for the latter - one borne out in my (admittedly limited) experience.

Let us be fair to Benedict - he welcomed the SSPX back into the fold and authored 'Summorum Pontificum' in which he made it clear that the 1962 rite had not been abrogated. John Paul II also expanded access to the mass. Even Paul VI gave the English churches permission to continue using the TLM (see the so-called 'Agatha Christie indult'). Of course, you are correct that those Popes ought to have done more to preserve the TLM (especially Paul, who did great damage). But Francis is the real problem. He has wounded the faith of many people.

[Vito B. Caiati]

Hector,
Thank you for your reasoned response to my overall assessment of the Novus Ordo and my brief remark on the SSPX.

As to the former, you pose the question: “Could the priests at least offer the NO in Latin for you and your fellow TLM attendees?” My response to which would be a firm negative, for my objection to the NO is not simply that it is offered in the vernacular, but that the theology of this liturgical rite, especially but not exclusively, in its revised Offertory and Canon, obscures if not implicitly denies the sacrificial nature of the Mass, with Christ “One and the same [as] the victim, and He Who now offers the sacrifice in virtue of the priestly ministry [the priest acting in persona Christi], [as] the Same Who offered Himself then on the Cross, on the mode of offering being different” (Session 22, ch, 2). Compare this formulation with Article 7 of the General Instruction of the new Roman Missal: “The Lord’s Supper, or Mass, is the sacred assembly or meeting go the people of God, met together with the priest presiding, to celebrate the memorial of the Lord… where two or three are gathered in my name, then I am in their midst.” Here, we have quite explicitly a Protestant understanding of the Mass, since the essential sacramental/sacrificial function of the priest is suppressed, and it is strongly implied that Christ is spiritually present among the faithful rather than as a Real Presence.

It is impossible here for me to go through each defective aspect the Offertory and Canon, analyses of which can be found in many works by traditional Catholic scholars, but you have the gist of my argument. Let me just observe that the all the acts and words of the NO reflect this intended Protestant (i.e., ecumenical) deformation of the Roman Rite: The turning of the priest away from God and towards “the people”; the suppression of the elevated altar, which represents Christ, present in the tabernacle that holds his Person, and its substitution by a simple table, something from which men may eat; the elimination of the many reverential ways in which the consecrated Host is treated in the Roman Rite, all indicating the Real Presence, from It being held by only the index finger and thumb of the priest, who treats it as a Holy Object through repeated genuflections, and who he must keep these two fingers together, touching no other object; its distribution to the faithful only on the tongue at the altar rail by an ordained minister, with a paten always present to prevent even the smallest particle from falling to the floor; and so on.

Moreover, the Novus Ordo, which abolished the Roman Rite, the liturgical form of the Mass for more than 1500 years, by an unprecedented act of one pope, Paul VI, and a few advisors, principal among them fanatical and scheming Annibale Bugnini, all obsessed with making the Mass more acceptable to Protestants and “modern man.” This was an abuse of papal power, one that went far beyond the “reforms” of the Mass spoken of in Sacrosanctum Concilium: no pope in the history of the Church dared to touch the Roman Rite, the core of which had taken form in the early Middle Ages, and that had slowly evolved over time, until codified in the missal of Pope Paul V. Again, everything about this process was abnormal and manipulative. But as usual, almost all the hierarchy, with a few exceptions, such as Cardinal Ottavani, followed like sheep. So, now we have Paul VI as a saint and his Mass as the norm, with all its defects.

As for the SSPX, I support its existence and work because, with the exception of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter and the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, it is the only clerical order preserving and offering the TLM. I know something of Archbishop Lefevre’s political history, not all it which I approve and which, but I think that in assessing him we have to take a broader view of his life, one that includes his thirty years as a missionary in Africa and his singular struggle to defend the Catholic liturgy. Whatever his failings, I find the latter courageous and meritorious. As for the SSPX and antisemitism, I do not doubt that there are some members of the group that hold such repulsive views, but I have no reason to think that these are representative of its adherents or of French traditionalists in general, who, by the way, now ordain almost 20 percent of all French priests each year. The SSPX has an official position on antisemitism, “Anti Semitism is not Catholic,” which is available on line: https://sspx.org/en/anti-semitism-not-catholic

[Joe Odegaard]

Vito, I was an altar boy, and I rang the bells at the Consecration, and I held the patent at Communion. And I distinctly remember being bothered very much by having to shake hands with people at the new mass, and I was just a kid at the time, with not much understanding.

[Vito B. Caiati]

Joe,

I agree about the shaking of hands, which besides working against silent prayer and contemplation keeps our attention, whether we like it or not, on each other rather than on God. Taken as a whole, NO Masses resemble modern assemblies or meetings in that one public verbal act follows another in a linear progression, all directed at the audience. The layered, simulations actions of the Roman Rite—the priest at the altar, the servers moving about with incense or kneeling at the side, the congregation kneeling in silent prayer of following in their missals--all of which are expressions of the monumental action that takes place, the coming once again of the Second Person in our midst, is lost.

[Joe Odegaard]

Vito, this quote is from Thomas Merton's "Seven Story Mountain," published 1948 ! One would think that the RCC would have been aware of the reality reflected here in Merton's book . . . page 207 and 208, where Merton describes the first time as an adult when he attended Mass: (It is 1937) . . .

"Broadway was empty. A solitary trolley came speeding down in front of Barnard college and past the School of Journalism. Then, from the high, grey, expensive tower of the Rockefeller Church, huge bells began to boom. It served very well for the eleven o'clock Mass at the little brick Church of Corpus Christi, hidden behind Teachers College on 121st. Street.

How bright the little building seemed. Indeed, it was quite new. The sun shone on the clean bricks. People were going in the wide open door, into the cool darkness and, all at once, all the churches of Italy and France came back to me. The richness and fullness of the atmosphere of Catholicism that I had not been able to avoid apprehending and loving as a child, came back to me with a rush: but now I was to enter it fully for the first time. So far, I had known nothing but the outward surface.

It was a gay, clean church, with big plain windows and white columns and pilasters and a well-lighted, simple sanctuary. Its style was a trifle eclectic, but much less perverted with incongruities than the average Catholic church in America. It had a kind of seventeenth century, oratorian character about it, though with a sort of American colonial tinge of simplicity. The blend was effective and original: but although all this affected me, without my thinking about it, the thing that impressed me most was place was full, absolutely full. It was full not only of old ladies and broken-down gentlemen with one foot in the grave, but of men and women and children young and old — especially young: people of all classes, and all ranks on a solid foundation of workingmen and women and their families.

I found a place I hoped would be obscure, over on one side, in the back, and went to it without genuflecting, and knelt down. As I knelt, the first thing I noticed was a young girl, very pretty too, perhaps fifteen or sixteen, kneeling straight up and praying quite seriously. I was very much impressed to see that someone who was young and beautiful could with such simplicity make prayer the real and serious and principal reason for going to church. She was clearing kneeling that way because she meant it, not in order to show off, and she was praying with an absorption which, though not the deep recollection of a saint, was serious enough to show that she was not thinking about all the other people who were there.

What a revelation it was, to discover so many ordinary people in a place together, more conscious of God than one another: not there to show off their hats or their clothes, but to pray, or at least to fulfill a religious obligation, not a human one. For even those who might have been there for no better motive than that they were obliged to be, were at least free from any of the self-conscious and human constraint which is never absent from a Protestant church where people are definitely gathered together as people, as neighbors, and always have at least half an eye for one another, if not al of both eyes."

[BV]

Bro Joe,

Thank you for that wonderful Merton quotation.

The pedant in me must point out, however, that the title of that extremely influential work is The Seven Storey Mountain, not The Seven Story Mountain.

[Vito B. Caiati]

I also thank you, Joe, for this excerpt from Merton, which captures so well what we have lost in forfeiting the Tridentine Mass, which formed the center of an entire religious world view and mode of life. The last sentence in particular resonates with me: “For even those who might have been there for no better motive than that they were obliged to be, were at least free from any of the self-conscious and human constraint which is never absent from a Protestant church where people are definitely gathered together as people, as neighbors, and always have at least half an eye for one another, if not all of both eyes.”

[Hector]

As a very shy little boy (this would be the 1990s) it was making the 'sign of peace' at Anglican services that put me off going to church. Why I was required to shake the hands of complete strangers I had no idea - I still have no idea. People not afflicted with shyness can't imagine the agony this can cause for a socially anxious child. It also seemed - and still seems - disruptive and self-congratulatory. I can't imagine it was present in the early church - did people shake hands at all in 1st century Judaea? Though I am not shy nowadays, I do still wonder how difficult modern churches must be for those who are anxious or wish to be solitary.

Joe, that Merton passage is beautiful, thank you, and a good reminder that I must read more by Merton.

Vito (I hope you don't mind me addressing you as Vito),

I understand your concerns with the NO, and I'm certain your grasp of the relevant theological and liturgical intricacies far exceeds mine! (if it's not too much trouble could you point me towards a couple of books or papers you think are enlightening in this regard?) I have a good friend (my Confirmation sponsor in fact) who thinks along very similar lines to yours and she is a keen Lefebvrist - she gifted me a beautiful 1962 missal which I use every day. I am a very recent convert to the RCC so for me many of these questions are still part of coming to grips with my new faith.

I was perhaps not clear enough in saying that I do not at all regard Lefebvre to have been an evil man even if he held some unpleasant opinions - I think his work in Africa in particular was laudable and remarkable - but it is of course the opinions that are important in the question we're discussing. By the way, it appears your sentence on his political views was slightly garbled by a typo, though I understood your point.

Thank you for the link to the SSPX document which does something to allay my fears (but characters like Bishop Williamson, even if no longer in the SSPX, do not). I think you've made a good case for the traditionalist position and the SSPX and I shall meditate upon it.

[Vito B. Caiati]

Hector,

Certainly, use my given name.

I too treasure my 1962 Missal.

Here are some books on Vatican II and on the differences of the TLM and the NO that I have found useful.

Roberto de Mattei, The Second Vatican Council—An Unwritten Story (The best analysis of Vatican II, placing the events of the Council, and particularly the intentions and strategies of the enemies of tradition in a longer historical perspective).

John W. O’Malley, What Happened at Vatican II (Less critical than de Mattei, but still contains useful information on the internal dynamics of the Council and, most importantly, on the the unprecedented and trouble laden language employed in its official pronouncements, which reflects “a new style of thinking, speaking, and behaving”)

Annibale Bugnini, Reformer of the Liturgy (The definitive biography of Bugnini, revealing his fanatical opposition to the traditional liturgy and the manipulations that he employed, in league with Paul VI, to destroy it).

Peter Kawasniewski, The Once and Future Roman Rite: Returning to the Traditional Latin Liturgy after Seventy Years of Exile (Simply the best extended treatment of the Tridentine Mass)

Dom Pietro Leone, The Destruction of the Roman Rite (A much shorter but quite valuable comparative analysis of the TLM and NO, highlighting the theological deficiencies of the latter)

“Letter from Cardinal Ottaviani to His Holiness Pope Pius VI” https://sspx.org/en/ottaviani-intervention (The lucid critique of the late Cardinal Ottaviani, who had fought so hard at the Council to defend tradition, and some Roman theologians of the Novus Ordo; still of great value)

[Hector]

Vito,

Thanks so much for this list! I will add them to my reading list (which never stops growing alas!). I also intend to read some of Lefebvre's own writings, Dietrich von Hildebrand's 'The Devastated Vineyard' and 'Trojan Horse in the City of God' on Vatican II (if I can ever find copies of them!), and Martin Mosebach's 'The Heresy of Formlessness'. My Lefebvrist friend recently lent me 'The Genius of the Roman Rite' edited by Uwe Michael Lang, an Oratorian. I have read parts of Bernard Tissier de Mallerais's biography of Lefebvre but it's excessive length and detail (sadly typical of modern biographies) exceeded my level of interest in the man and so I couldn't bring myself to read the entire text.

[BV]

Gentlemen,

I shoot my mouth off about Vatican II, but I really don't know much about it. So thanks, Vito, for that extremely useful list, some of the titles of which I really ought to read.

An excellent discussion, spanning the generations.

[Hector]

https://www.sjcacademy.com/uploads/4/9/5/6/49563895/dietrich_von_hildebrand_-_the_devastated_vineyard.pdf

A copy of Von Hildebrand's book on Vatican II, 'The Devastated Vineyard', if anyone wishes to read it. Second hand copies, in the UK at least, are on offer for £65+ !!

Thank you everyone for such a enjoyable discussion!