Open Thread: Last Night's Trump-Biden Debate

I wrote something about it but lost the post when my connection failed as I was uploading it. What did you think of the 'debate'?

Comments

[Joe Odegaard]

I didn't watch the debate. I already know what the moral choice is, and it's not anything "D."

[Ben]

The real scandal is not Biden's senility. To the honest and observant, his infirmity was obvious in the 2020 election season. It's the cynicism, brazenness, and megalomania of the cabal of Democrats and leftists, e.g. the Obamas, the Clintons perhaps, and whatever powers that be in media, philanthropy, Big Tech, etc., that are truly astonishing and disturbing. It's clear certain malefactors entered into an arrangement with the Bidens: He gets to be president, as he feels entitled after his long mediocre career, failing upward in the American cursus honorum, but they, unbeknownst to even him and his family, get to rule. "Scranton Joe" is the skin-suit their monstrous leftism, tyranny, and corruption dons while the "fundamental transformation" of the country Obama touted is pursued full speed ahead at the expense of normal, law-abiding, middle- and working-class, productive and patriotic Americans of all races and creeds.

After Thursday's shambolic display from that empty vessel, the jig is up. The ruse is unsustainable. The "panic" and the sudden frantic discussions about the Democratic party ticket are not about the cognitive deterioration of our country's head of state who looks like he can't govern, with that being a terrible thing for the common good. Up until this point, collectively they were perfectly pleased to gaslight the American people and insist on Biden's fitness for the office knowing full well he wasn't because it was the plan in the first place for Biden not to really govern. The Democrats had ample opportunity to cast aside his husk for this election, but they believed they could continue to get away with the arrangement I've described. Post-Thursday, there is no way to spin his candidacy, or presidency, with plausible deniability. They've been exposed and feel vulnerable, perhaps for the first time in four years, about the notion that the American public writ large can see them for the sinister, self-serving, oligarchic despots that they are. They no longer have a face for their machinations.

I'm not sanguine about the country holding these villains accountable for their perfidy in November, though. I believe there are too many independents and moderates who are content with the Democrats' ruinous policies and malevolent ideology as long it's not the decrepit Biden fronting their implementation. If Gavin Newsom, Michelle Obama, or hell, even Kamala Harris would become the nominee through 11th-hour regicide at their convention the scandal from last Thursday will be forgotten, if not outright forgiven -- as absurd as that would be, showing the election season, our so-called "democratic deliberation," to be a farce. A sane, moral liberty-loving people would recognize that the Democrats should not be allowed anywhere near the levers of power for foisting Biden on the American people, their evil, destructive policies, and the banana-republic-style investigations, impeachments, and lawfare prosecuted against the leader of their political opposition and his allies for the past 8 years. The fact that only now in these last few weeks and months that it might seem like Biden and the Democrats and might lose and pay a political price is terrifying to consider. It indicts us as a republican nation in breathtaking decline whose decadence and suicidal tendencies at the time will fascinate future historians into perpetuity like the Romans have for the past 2,000 years.

[Dmitri]

Dems and their enablers in the media are in a complete panic mode. Biden is clearly not suitable for office. Even his sympathizers say so. It would be very dangerous for US and the West if he, Obama's wife, Harris or Newsom are elected. The enemies of the West are attracted to a perceived weakness and see it as an opportunity to terrorize and attack.

[Hector]

Being British I've less 'skin in the game' but I watched the whole debate. It was a massacre. I think it'll now be nearly impossible for the Democrats to fight against the narrative that Biden is mentally unfit for office, so whoever thought an early debate was a good idea made a colossal mistake. Clips of Biden talking gibberish or losing his train of thought will be repeated ad nauseum by the Trump campaign.

Trump, surprisingly enough, restrained himself for once and it paid off - he let Biden trip himself up and didn't overplay his hand (the microphones being turned off when the other candidate spoke might've helped rather than hindered Trump which I don't think was the plan!). Trump rambled and exaggerated as usual ('some of the cleanest air ever') and he's never been good on detail but he generally kept to the script and brought nearly everything back fairly effectively to his attack points on immigration and the economy. Biden came across as the more childish and insulting of the two, which wasn't a good strategy. Rather than just attacking Trump on those moral failings of Trump's which might matter to people and have an effect on his ability to govern well, Biden mixed it up with insults about irrelevancies such as Trump's weight which made him seem petty and spiteful. Of course, it really got impassioned when they started arguing about golf.

If Biden wanted to push the line that Trump is a liar he should also have avoided lying so egregiously himself - no US servicemen have died on his watch?!

I also thought it unclear what Biden's message was, it all seemed lost in the rambling. He was defending his time in office, of course, but what is the bigger picture? Unclear. Mostly it just seemed to be that he had done a good job and Trump hadn't and that Trump is a liar and a reprobate. He seems to think he can pay for everything by taxing the wealthy more, which is the same line Labour are taking here. Dubious economics, and if it's true, unclear why Biden isn't already doing this! Trump's message was clear enough - he wants to stop illegal immigration, secure the border, end the war in Ukraine, punish China with tariffs, cut taxes and regulation that are (he claims) preventing economic growth.

All in all a disaster for Biden, and if the Dems don't get rid of him they'll probably lose with such a lame duck candidate. They also blundered by peddling the line (on social media about half way through the debate, I believe) that Biden was suffering from a bad cold (which if true, Biden could've said himself to start with and allayed peoples' fears about his raspy voice and zonked-out expression easily enough) and then shortly after having Biden looking far more energised at a rally in which he could read from a teleprompter, which rather undermined that claim (I want to know what cold medication he takes!). They should've said he had the flu and left it a couple of days before he appeared again in public. That might've been just about believable - at least to those who haven't been paying attention to Biden's obvious cognitive decline over the last few years.

If the Dems do try to get rid of Biden they'll be in a terrible mess if it's not done efficiently. I suspect that a Democrat with some energy and relatively moderate views might well have a chance at beating Trump, so if they allow Biden to run again it may be seen retrospectively as a huge and unnecessary mistake.

[BV]

Gentlemen,

I am blessed to have attracted so many good commenters.

Ben,

Very astute analysis, beautifully expressed. That the handlers pulling the strings of the geriatric puppet have utter contempt for the populace is shown by the chutzpah of their most recent gaslighting: the dismissal of the video footage revealing Old Joe's decrepitude as "deepfakes."

What I used to say about Obama, that he is a "master of the multiple modes of mendacity," is true in excelsis of of the ruling cadre of the once-but-no-longer-respectable Democrat Party.

But what I find puzzling is how presumably intelligent and decent people (George F. Will, Mona Charen, Thomas Friedman, David French, et al.) cannot see what to us is blindingly evident. How explain this phenomenon?

[BV]

Dmitri,

You've put your finger on the most important point: not just the USA but civilization itself is in grave danger because of Biden's weakness and the cockeyed theories of the globalist bastards who prop him up.

No, Joe, 'climate change' is not the major threat; nuclear holocaust is. Trump sees the danger; Biden and his supporters are blinded by their lust for power.

[BV]

Hector,

You watched the whole 'debate'? I could stomach only half of it.

You are right to point to Trump's exaggerations. They offend me. I have a theory about it which I will set forth in a separate post.

Your comments are very good -- as usual. But now I have prepare a meal and get ready for the Mark Levin show on Fox. He is the best that Fox has to offer at the present time. It is astonishing how much better conservative commentary is thtn leftist commentary. I mean Fox and Newsmax versus MSNBC, CNN, and the others of that disgusting ilk.

[Hector]

Bill,

Unfortunately, yes. I saw some footage of Biden's worst moments and I wanted to see them in context, especially since people have claimed that videos of Biden's senior moments have been craftily edited by his enemies - perhaps some have but this certainly wasn't one of them - they were even worse in context. I've never watched one of these debates before (I never watch the British ones either) and it was about as unedifying as expected so I don't think I'll be taking it up as a new hobby.

Do you know the Hoover Institution's 'Goodfellows' podcast on Youtube? Very good current affairs discussion show, mostly about foreign policy, with Niall Ferguson, H. R. McMaster and John Cochrane. It's the only thing I watch with any kind of regularity.

[Dmitri]

Bill

It was fascinating to read Russian political philosopher Dugin's -- who is often called the ideological brain of contemporary Russia -- commenting on the debate on the Russian official news website RIA Novosti. The very title of his article is instructive: "Beavis and Butt-Head debate: who rules USA". The article is mostly humorous but its ending is nothing but.

"If such a society and such a culture, such candidates and such voters determine the destiny of the mankind [D: all of the preceding pertains to US], then we ought to admit that we are finished. ... We say about Russia that it is ruled by God, because otherwise its existence is inexplicable. USA also has a secret. How can the country become the leading world power on such [D: shaky] foundations, with such people and such mental issues? It means that USA is ruled by someone more serious and invisible. And it doesn't look like its God. More likely it is someone else..."

[Joe Odegaard]

As a Christian, and as citizen of the USA, and as a student of history, I totally reject Dugins' comment.

[BV]

Dmitri,

That the Father of Lies, or one of his acolytes, is speaking through Joe Biden, is somewhat plausible given the breath-taking mendacity of the guy, not to mention the preternatural mendacity of the people he has appointed to high posts with Alejandro Mayorkas in the lead, the Director of -- wait for it -- Homeland SECURIY. How's that for an Orwellian title?

A parallel political-theological speculation is that God, who is said to work in mysterious ways, is inspiring the unlikely Manhattan sybarite Donald J. Trump to save the country.

I myself can't give much credence to either speculation, but who knows?

How well do you know Dugin's thought? I solicit your comments on this First Things article: https://www.firstthings.com/article/2023/02/alexander-dugin-explained

And then there is this YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGunRKWtWBs in which Dugin appears to be maintaining that there is truth, but that it is relative! Holy Mother Russia! That contradicts the approved MavPhil line according to which there is truth, but that truth by its very nature cannot be anything other than absolute (non-relative). As I have lately argued, rational acceptability is relative, but not truth. No way!

But I cannot lay into Dugin until I understand him. You may be able to help me with this.

But I do agree that that the 'debate' did have a Beavis-Butthead quality. Brits such as our friend Hector must be appalled at how inarticulate U.S. pols are.

There must not be a second debate lest our geopolitical adversaries become even more convinced of how weak the USA now is. They are salivating as we speak.

The USA is is DEEP trouble thanks to the Deep State and its geriatric puppet, which is why I condemn morally all Biden supporters for either their vincible ignorance (the useful idiots) or their vicious hatred of America as she was founded to be (the cadre leftists).

[BV]

Joe,

That's a bare assertion. I thought you told me that your father taught you that quod gratis asseritur gratis negatur.

[BV]

Don't forget: this is a war and the Left will do anything to win. You useful idiots need to wake up from woke. Or are you completely ignorant of your own long-term best self-interest?

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2024/06/be_careful_donald.html

[BV]

Dmitri,

I went to Amazon in search of works by Dugin. Didn't find anything. But I found this: https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-biden-administration-demanding-amazon-censor-books-disagree-with

[Dmitri]

Hi Bill

The article in First Things that you referenced is by Dugin's translator Millerman who has a PhD in political philosophy from University of Toronto and who is working independently from academia. He also has a book on Dugin's philosophy for under $10 on Amazon.com -- Inside "Putin's Brain": The Political Philosophy of Alexander Dugin. I didn't read it. I am very far from being a scholar of Dugin's thought, but I read a few of his articles and watched a couple of videos. Millerman's take on Dugin in the article appears spot on. I'd suggest a heuristics that may be useful to you: if Millerman's writing on Heidegger in that article makes sense to you, then I'd guess his writing on Dugin gains some credibility. Dugin's thought is influenced by Russian mysticism, belief in Russia's exceptional mission and 4th way (Millerman talks about that), intellectual admiration for Heidegger and respect for traditionalist thinking (Millerman correctly mentions Evola and Guenon in this context).

[Hector]

Bill,

Two works by Dugin available online:

https://www.maieutiek.nl/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Foundations-of-Geopolitics.pdf

https://www.maieutiek.nl/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/The-Fourth-Political-Theory.pdf

(No I haven’t read them!)

On British eBay you can buy his book on Heidegger for about £20 - perhaps the seller will ship to the US.

>>Brits such as our friend Hector must be appalled at how inarticulate U.S. pols are.<<

I am appalled but you should see some of ours in full flow. The shadow foreign secretary (very likely soon to be actual foreign secretary) was once asked on a quiz show which monarch followed Henry VIII and said ‘Henry VII’… And he doesn’t have dementia. The low quality of politicians is a problem across the West.

[BV]

Hector,

In the private sector, it is usually the very best who rise to the top; in government, the very worst. Kamala Harris for example.

People say her speech is 'word salad,' but the metaphor is inappropriate. A salad is a coherent blend of comestibles: it makes gustatory sense. Kamala's speech makes no sense at all, as witness her 'philosophy of time.' At least Joey B can plead dementia; not so Harris.

Ah, but she is a 'person of color,' two colors actually. That makes her doubly qualified! Triply if you factor in her 'gender.' Now if she were only a lesbian!

Thanks for the references.

[Joe Odegaard]

Hi Hector !

Henry, Edward, Mary, Elizabeth, James ...

Even I know this, and I'm a Yankee Colonial.

Joe

[Hector]

Bill and Dmitri,

Benjamin R. Teitelbaum’s War for Eternity: The Return of Traditionalism and the Rise of the Populist Right published by Penguin in 2020 also covers Dugin.

[Hector]

Hi Joe!

Hope you are well.

Correct! I’d expect at the very least most Yankees know that regnal numbers can’t go backwards!

The idiot in question also thought Marie Antoinette won the Nobel Prize for Physics and the French ancien regime had a state prison called Versailles.

[BV]

This is an exciting time to be alive. Only the brain-dead could be bored. An exciting time. I hope it is not an EXITING time.

Time to man up, gear up, and do your bit to save the republic.

Here is Rod Dreher's take on the 'debate.' https://roddreher.substack.com/p/bidens-ceausescu-balcony-moment

[Joe Odegaard]

Hi Brother Bill

Yes, If you ask me, the Father of Lies is speaking through Biden, and the people around him. I'm less skeptical about that than you are. Here is an article over at AT about that:

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2024/07/who_s_behind_this_show.html

[BV]

Hector,

The Penguin edition of Teitelbaum is nice and cheap (dear on your side of the Pond?), but I fear too small for easy reading by old eyes. The hardbound ed. is twice as expensive but I wonder what the author's orientation is. Is it a critique from the Left? The bad picture of Bannon on the cover of the hardbound suggests that it is leftist claptrap.

[BV]

Hector,

I just now ordered Millerman, Putin's Brain, for a paltry $10 USD. Arrives tomorrow. Kapitalismus ueber alles! Can you imagine a company like Amazon arising in any socialist craphole?

The recommendation by Christopher Rufo clinched it. I've done a lot of work on Heidegger over the years and so that is part of my interest in Millerman. His writing in the First Things piece, though, is pretty murky.

[BV]

Catacomb Joe sends us to "Gullibility 101" which offers an answer to the question that bugs me: how can otherwise intelligent and morally decent people, who are not hate-America leftist scum out to destroy our system of gov't, be so EFFING STUPID as to support Biden and the Dems and oppose Trump?

Thanks, Joe!

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2024/07/gullibility_101.html

[Joe Odegaard]

You are welcome Brother Bill. And now, off I go on my daily bike ride per the Boy Scout Oath. ". . . I promise to keep keep myself physically strong . . . "

[Hector]

Bill,

It's cheap here too. I just looked and it has a completely different cover and subtitle in Britain, far less Bannon-centric. Teitelbaum in this article denies that the book is the 'hit-job' it was marketed as in the US:

https://unherd.com/2021/03/how-liberal-solidarity-unravelled/?=refinnar

I don't think it's straightforwardly a critique from the Left, judging by what Teitelbaum himself says and from reviews (though I think Teitelbaum is a liberal in the American sense) but I have yet to read the book. My current non-fiction reading is a book on Jefferson's presidency and a book on the history and culture of the Afrikaaners. Do you know the German novelist Wolfgang Koeppen? I've just read Der Tod in Rom, in a very good English translation, and it was excellent.

[Joe Odegaard]

Here it comes:
https://www.westernjournal.com/huffpost-reported-fbi-dangerous-headline-american-history-supreme-court-ruling/

[Joe Odegaard]

Van Morrison Here Comes the Night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a5OHgju8M

[BV]

I love that song, Joe. It'll get my motor running for my hard ride, soon to begin. From '65. Sounds as fresh now as it did then.